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Как ИИ изменит литературу? Галина Юзефович. Книжный чел #114

If someone in charge appears, it means the skis are not moving. An objective assessment of texts is impossible. The faster you write, the more likely it is that the reader will not turn away from you. Do you think pelevin uses networks? No, well, he’l write him some . From gpt and that he then it will take longer to tinker with it if you started writing a novel and you don’t know how it will end up you’ve already screwed up we read not only so that we feel good we read in order to be aware of the student to submit written work written by gpt.

Chat we all together we watched the boy's word, i won't read harry potter, because the state isn't fighting with books, but with writers, friends. Hello everyone. This show is about literature about our world and about the favorite books of interesting people, a book person. Today, 6 years later, galina yusifovich is my guest, the chief literary crc critic hello galina. Hello grisha i will allow myself to routinely be indignant we do not have main critics the main critic this is absolute nonsense it cannot be the main critic that the head critic is some kind of ministry you won’t call yourself that. But no it seems to me that. No it seems to me that this is wrong. Firstly, it’s offensive to my colleagues and secondly, a. This violates the very understanding of the idea of ​​criticism. Criticism is comprehension, reflection, if comprehension and reflection becomes monopolistic. That is, if someone in charge appears, it means the skis are not going with us.

We are faced with this exactly now in the socio-political life of our country when we have some directive idea of ​​​​what is right i would really like to avoid this and therefore forgive me for being so boring even on an unasked question, but it seems to me that this is just very important well one of the most influential and important for our generation let's do it like this, thank you so much better. Let's do it like that galina you have now come to kazakhstan to give lectures about various interesting aspects that we will talk about, including one of yours lectures about artificial intelligence in literature and the last time we talked was when the channel was just starting in 18 and then the world was very different in many artificial intelligence in literature was discussed at the level. Well, more hypothetical, some futurists may have undertaken some -those attempts and now everything has changed a lot, how much does it inspire you? Does it scare you? Does it inspire you? It definitely doesn’t. It’s scary too. Perhaps not, let’s just say it’s very interesting to me. It seems to me that this is some kind of new stage.

I don’t know yet what exactly it will be, that is, my lecture is it. More about the question than about the answers, but of course we are entering some new space; this applies not only to literature; artificial intelligence is invading our lives on an ever larger scale. But for literature, this also implies some changes, if we are still at that point where artificial intelligence acts, at best, as a co-author, that is, after all, a fairly small number of writers trust artificial intelligence with some small pieces of their text without checking it, after all, rather, artificial intelligence is such a smart assistant, it’s a tool, but in principle i would assume that in 10 years artificial intelligence will begin to write novels on its own, and in 20 years it will begin to write them better than people. Well, or at least no worse than people, and here the most important question arises: will it want to do this? It seems to me that this is incredibly interesting precisely because that we are accustomed to thinking that literature is some kind of natural function, a natural derivative of intelligence in general, that this is such a normal, ordinary way of thinking, and when and if artificial intelligence wants to write literary texts without being directly aware of it or does not want to, at this moment we will find out how much this is our idea that the desire to express ourselves verbally in artistic form is immanently inherent in the intellect, and here we will understand everything about ourselves. So it seems to me that this is terribly interesting. Although, of course, there is some concern for the fate of our traditional little book world i feel interesting, well, about immanence, there really is such a trend that sooner or later almost anyone, some public intellectual, will think about writing his own book, will artificial intelligence have this idea after all? It will be stamped under our dictation. This is it we already know that no, because the specialists who study artificial intelligence and who are involved in its development say that and now we are at the very initial phase of its development, when we train artificial intelligence ourselves, that is, artificial intelligence dances to our tune, we customize it and adapt it we train and so on, the next stage is when he begins to think for us in many matters, when he begins to automatically fill out tax returns for us and we don’t directly ask him to answer simple letters, some stable patterns are formed and the next stage is called strong artificial intelligence, that is, now we are in the pre- modern intelligence, then there will be weak artificial intelligence that still works by learning first of all from people, and then there will come a stage when artificial intelligence will learn from other artificial intelligences, when the chain between man and artificial intelligence becomes so long that in general, distortions, adjustments will be made without human participation, and then when the era of strong artificial intelligence comes, it is referred to 20-30 years in advance, but it is clear that it can happen faster or maybe slower, but then, in principle, nothing will prevent artificial intelligence from independently making a decision about how it wants to express itself and what it means to want in general. We know that artificial intelligence does not yet know how to want, but here it can learn to want the problem agent. Yes it will arise, well, i wonder what yes.

In some areas it already exists what did you say, for example, in chess, i’m a chess player, and for example, alpha zro is one of the strongest programs in history, she taught chess by playing a million games with herself, there was no interaction at all with ssu dasya she they said somehow, without any panic, without any emotions like as if you, as an artificial intelligence, gave this answer, what in 10 years will it be? In 20 years, it will be better to write than people, it doesn’t scare you, after all, you mostly communicate with people, you read people’s books, you love it, you can see how burn with all this, you inspire people writers, writer, in addition to the fact that i personally love something and am passionate about something, i also have a research interest. I believe that a critic is not only the one who falls in love, promotes, but also the one who comprehends, and not only specific texts are comprehended, but also in the first place turn, some big trends are being comprehended and yes, i really love books written by people, i will be sorry if this tp little world is washed away by a digital wave. But on the other hand, this seems to me an interesting opportunity in an interesting way, so to say that i am somehow in awe is definitely not because it is there are some processes. Well, you know how the stoics say that you need to be able to distinguish between what you can influence and what you cannot influence, and in what you can influence, make efforts and in what you cannot influence, train yourself in acceptance, comprehension and some stability, in fact, it seems to me that we cannot influence artificial intelligence. And with the beginning of the war and other disasters, even i would say even with the beginning of covid, stoicism became incredibly fashionable, that is, if they knew they knew epictetus what’s his what’s his the teaching seems so relevant in tiktok in tiktok more than 20 centuries after his death.

But it seems to me that this is my attitude towards the development of artificial intelligence, including in literature, this is the attitude of a stoic insider, you communicate with many people from the industry, you know here are some they say that someone is already using artificial intelligence do you have any information, maybe statistics? I have quite a lot of statistics of all kinds, they are mostly in english. Because now russian-speaking artificial intelligence writes much worse; in this place we naturally we are falling behind this lag, i think, will be caught up, but for now i know that now yandex is training. G. Yes yandex gpt. It’s not just n, it also trains m for writing literary texts. I know that yandex is now preparing a book that will be written by all sorts of famous people, including writers who have co-authored with yandek gpt, i haven’t seen it yet, but i know that work is underway as for western authors. Well, for example, recently there was a loud scandal when a writer who received the most famous and most prestigious award in japan, the akutagawa prize, realized that in her novel approximately 1% in her novel approximately 1% is written by artificial intelligence, why should it be used as a literary black to save time or is it in different ways the most famous program that helps well, not a program application that helps writers in the english-speaking world it’s called surai you can use it’s really cool to try it’s such fun, she has several formats of work, the first one you can write her a very short outline of the scene and tell her to expand it and she saturates it with details you can say here’s a piece of text i want it to be written in the style of. Xgu she will rewrite it for you in xgu style and there under the hood there is probably gpt or yes, but in a certain way he’s tuned in, trained and so on, he can offer his plot moves. That is, he can just say if the writer has reached a dead end, he can tell him: let’s do this and let’s do that accordingly, he has some built-in models of storytelling, he knows all these magical assistants and so on. That is, he also read proppa and vogler and he can offer different ways out of this situation, he can simply act as an editor as a person who is a person in as an instrument that speaks to you have this tautology here you have an unplanned rhyme that shouldn’t exist. Well, that is, when words shouldn’t rhyme, they rhyme for some reason. And you have it here, exactly the same piece of text. Very similar, maybe they need to be separated, and so on.

That is, for now it functions more like an editor of an adviser’s support group, most authors say that they do not rely on the surai as a full-fledged text, that is, they almost never take the entire text, they edit it, they rewrite it. But this is a way to get out of writer's block, this is a way to somehow get off the ground if you are stuck, the best thing is the most active sura in general, editors of this kind are used by authors who write for electronic sadat, this is kindle direct publishing where each author is an agronomist, each gopher he can write himself publish himself sell himself marketi why is surai very useful to them because in this world in this magical wonderful world people subscribe to the clothing category of texts categories very funny there for example teenage fantasy about mermaids and cozy detectives with element of mysticism and the maximum reader's expectation of a new book from the author is now i'm afraid to lie about 17 weeks. That is, if every 4 months the author does not give him a new book, the reader takes it away from him, he loses his audience. And since there is not just one author working in the little mermaids, but a couple of dozen, then accordingly, this was crossed out, he writes slowly. Therefore, now there is this arms race going on, the faster you write, the more likely it is that the reader will not turn away from you to write from a novel at 4 months. And it’s better faster, yes dadada, so they are starting to use it quite actively and the numbers are right there impressive, that is, like 47% of writers say that they use artificial intelligence tools to write their mermaid fantasy and so on nosta are terribly angry with the rest because they believe that the rest also use.

But he doesn’t admit that’s why these deadlines are greatly compressed, that is, now the average period for which the author is rolling out a new book about this is already 12 weeks and those people who want to outpace their competitors, they are still compressing these deadlines, that is, of course, this is very mass literature. That is, this is literature that is consumed well, in approximately the same format in which there are episodes of your favorite sitcom series -something that is, these are not tabloid books like that. Well, yes, the word tabloid i think it’s somehow already a little higher from our vocabulary, it’s so boring, yes. Well, it’s like that in general, book sewing yes, book consumer goods are designed precisely for the fact that a person is tired here he wants to read something predictably comfortable, such comfort reading, erotic, probably, yes, there are also erotic novels. Yes, but they are erotic too, it’s not like just everything erotic, this is for you 50 types of erotic because it’s very clear. Well, somewhere there are fetishes somewhere else trouble and bdsm there are all sorts of gay not gay.

Well, everything is complicated, but with drama without drama with romance without romance well, in general, everything we imagine these categories of the pornhub site, but it is clear that this is such a difficult path because it presupposes, firstly, some general ethical principles and these are assed, this is now called ass, that is, a writer who writes with an assistant, they have some conventions for now, but they are being formed. The first, for example, is that the author must notify the reader that he worked in collaboration with artificial intelligence, he is not obliged to specifically tell what scenes are written by artificial intelligence, but he must report this, they are done, again, since there is no pressure in this area, such an area is very gray, there is a convention, there is some agreement, many authors really do it, do they do it all, check there is a general rule that no matter what is written there artificial intelligence is responsible for this, a person is responsible, that is, for example, well, it’s the same as with horse-drawn transport. That is, if someone is trampled by a horse, then it is not the horse that is to blame, but the owner of the horse. That is, if the artificial intelligence wrote some kind of extremism and propaganda of violence, drugs and suicide or something else bad, the fault for this is not the art of intelligence or the developer of artificial intelligence, but a person, and that a person should not publish anything written by artificial intelligence without prior approval. Well, in short, quite a lot of these rules are observed there. They are still unclear, but this is a directly important large area which obviously needs some kind of regulation, it just hasn’t had time to regulate in 2 years to a year.

So, progress is being made, this is a complex area, we don’t know about serious authors, but in principle i wouldn’t rule out that they also use it, another thing is that but what about you? Whatever you ask him for, he will write for you, that is, if you need some kind of push to overcome writer’s block, then why not use it even if you write something so serious with an eye on the akutagawa prize. But this mass literature is the most rewarding scribbles at an alarming speed, i think that when she gets to us, our after today website will simply explode because all the authors of books about hitchhikers and pg literature, they will discover a gold mine for themselves and will screw them up at the speed of i don’t know 10 pieces a week, maybe it’s great as a child, i read a series of books about the hitchhikers richard long arms, there were 50 books and then the author abandoned it. Now i think that he has a lot of followers left, this is nikitin, he’s hooked. I know that there is, but i didn’t read it in a peculiar way, but as a child i had a blast. Here i am i understand, i even recently went to his vkontakte group there are people when fifty there is the third part i think that, well, yuri nikitin, take a closer look, he seems to be an advanced person, despite the fact that already at age i think that he will take advantage.

And i wanted to ask about this japanese woman and in the end what happened to her it became cancelled, nothing, it wasn’t cancelled, i say that this is still a very gray area. That is, for now people are just freaking out, they don’t have written scripts, that first of all, she could not have said this. Well, that is, who was the woman pulling your tongue, no cancel culture there was a lot of polemics and discussions we have so far, we don’t know what to do about it, but just like when cars appeared, people didn’t understand how to treat them, where the ethical boundaries of what was acceptable were, it took many years for traffic rules to be formed. We are now in that phase when the car is already a bad, crooked ford. Do you know this ford t ford t, which even looks like a carriage and the trunk is a suitcase on the back, here we already have it like that.

And we don’t have traffic rules. Yet so there hasn’t been anything wrong with it yet, but everyone just rushed to discuss it’s just very interesting, i’ve also been interested in artificial intelligence for a long time, i did it with a lot of fandom in chinese science fiction, he was one of the first to do this there a few years ago, we’l look further. But you said that you have no doubt that some of the famous masters use what do you think pelevin uses on networks no pelevin does not use because for now he because he writes in russian in russian no one uses it seriously. Yet if you tried russian cha. Yes in english this is a completely different story if you try to talk to him in russian it turns out pretty terrible i had a funny precedent i started i don’t teach anymore. But when i was still teaching last year students started submitting written work to me using gpt chat and this they say that it’s a big common problem because the gpt chat won’t write brilliant work and the watery work is very watery and very ternary you can’t tell the difference because well, you don’t know if the person is just stupid or if he’s stupid in collaborating gpt with stupid gpt russian-speaking but there were some well, the most sane c-grade students, they at least re-read it over the gpt chat, but one c-grade student didn’t re-read it and he came up with an absolutely delightful text which was dedicated to the novel by votolazkin lavr i read it, i never laughed so much in my life because he rendered this delightful text of his slightly retold the contents of the novel russian chat gpt roman lavr didn’t read that’s why it turned out to be such an exciting love story of two girls olesenka and dunyasha and in general and by that time there were all our antigeisha and the dude is clearly just like something what the hell was he chilling and there are zero bullets and i just read with delight. I learned a lot of new things about the novel lavr vodolazkin returning to pelevin i think not yet, but first of all pelevin clearly knows how to write quickly, he just knows how to write quickly in 2013 14 six, he gave out a novel a year without any artificial intelligence, it’s not very clear why he should change his habits now. In addition, again, i assume that given the quality of the work of the russian-language gpt chat, you will redo more, that is, for now it works mainly to relieve writer’s block. I have a nice screenwriter who says that when there’s a party in your head, but ask chat for something and he’l answer you something like that, you’l look and say, lord, you’re talking nonsense now, i’l do everything right for you, the writer’s blog is hacking, and pelevin clearly doesn’t have this writer’s block. Judging by if he it was unlikely that he would write a book a year, but the main thing is, well, he’l write him some garbage g. And then he ’l tinker with it longer, it’s just that i had a direct association at some point, maybe this stylization for him is very good but that the texts of the neural network were really written by a neural network. Well, it’s not russian, it’s not a neural network that was written, it could just be in english, yes it was written and then a literary translation, but it’s interesting. But it seems to me that not yet at that moment, that is, i’m talking about viktor levich pelevin, we can think everything anything. And since he is like the lord god, his existence has not been proven, i won’t be surprised if after some time when the gpt chat is already upgraded and knows how to write well in russian, maybe viktor olegovich will condescend, but for now i just don’t see you can imagine the prerequisites for this: a person must formulate a request in english and receive some text in english, translate it into russian, edit it. Well, seriously, a person already writes a novel a year for him; it’s easier for him not to waste time on all these difficulties, maybe it’s not the topic uh, i know i watched your review of lef sin’s journey, i know that you have already spoken out, but i’m just curious in more detail how you still feel about the fact that you have become a heroine. Well, you know. Of course, this is how to get an order. That is, this. But now you can already the coffin goes to bed and in general, last year i had two main life achievements. Personally, boris borisovich grebenshchikov sang a song at a concert, a huge concert, he sang a song, vile levin wrote about me in a novel. Well, that is, it all seems to me that my life has already developed professionally in every way in this case, in general, you can already die. I hope not to rush yet, but nevertheless, somehow it’s unlikely that i will fly higher. Well, i don’t know, you can imagine some shining peaks, but no. That is, i was very pleased.

I was very funny because that i am a funny character, although for viktor olegovich it’s surprisingly cute, that is, agree that this fish looks like a parody of jokes but not hard. Yes, firstly, not hard and secondly, excuse me, the fish is specifically called wise and fearless, but seriously, like who did viktor olegovich say about a kinder word. And i was terribly touched by his intention to warn me, that is, there he puts into the mouth of this imaginary priest to whom the fish went to talk, he tells her, drive it under a snag and don’t show off your criminal record, that is, i directly felt that victor olegovich is a little worried about me, this is so touching, and that is, i just felt a surge of tenderness, warmth and gratitude because a could have called me an earthworm and did not.

Well, absolutely yes, this is probably very nice, and returning to the topic, the art of intelligence is now being used there in mostly in english there will still be, well, of course there will come a time when in russian they will be and even surpass the capabilities of the current english-speaking english-speaking will go even further ahead because they simply have more text volumes and capacities but there will come some moment when artificial intelligence will write better than people as you said, well, for some this may be a blasphemous statement, there are people who don’t believe in this, they say that a soul is necessary, a person, so you will answer a very important question. What does it mean better? I was here recently when i was preparing for my lecture. I read poetry such a project which was called yandex poet if you remember yandex autopoet, they taught him several poetic meters, of course the onegin stanza looks best, and they and he wrote poetry from this onegin stanza, rhymed naturally m based on queries, uh, search queries in yandex and if we abstract from that this is artificial poetry. And it looks very cool that is, in principle, it looks valuable in itself, look for these are really good. And they are of course not very serious. But they look very conceptual, that is, if i say that i don’t know, dmitry prigov wrote for example in which well, that is, assuming that he lived longer than he lived and wrote these poems in what year 2019, then you’l believe it right away, and the english-language ones write really good poems and they can be said there. Write to me, my friend, under william butler, yay, and here you are, please, under william butler,. Yay. And if we film this prejudice, there is something in me, there is no soul, then these poems are good, they can touch the human heart, so it is important to remember that after all, as we know, that is, in order for a book to be perceived as good, a reader is needed who is ready to perceive it as good. Difficult to objectively evaluate this is the eternal requirement that a critic must be objective, and what do they mean by objective? I liked it, you didn’t like it, or vice versa.

And accordingly, an objective assessment of texts is impossible because after some time artificial intelligence will begin to write things that are complex and allowable. Multiple interpretations and different tolerances. Views and assessments, yes, of course, will he write better than people, well, than some people? He will definitely write better. But he probably won’t write better than some others. Well, it’s unlikely that he will start writing like tolstoy or like a flauber, he will write according to - for another, maybe it will also be no less interesting for a certain category of readers, that is, there is no simple answer to this question: will he write better or will he not write it in a complex enough manner so that each specific person can read into it, interact with him, fall in love with him, and so on uh-huh. Well yes, i was hooked, it’s just better, i actually have a suspicion that most likely these novels will be personalized for a specific person who reads them according to his taste, and this will be the ideal novel for a specific reader that is generated there in a few seconds well, or a few minutes, the commercial model is not very clear that is, it’s not very clear why people would pay people won’t pay for this very often and there will be very few such people subscription most likely it will just be for people this may happen when artificial intelligence starts filming tv series then romanov will be in reading there is a very large social element, we read, not only to make us feel good, we read in order to be informed, in order to share some distinct experiences, but in order to have a common foundation for conversation. That is, why is this eternal suffering i haven’t read much of the classics why is it so important to read the classics because the classics are a certain common communicative foundation because it is very important that all bearers of russian culture know what anna karenina died of; this creates for all of us some common platform.

Therefore, i can hardly imagine these individual novels. I don’t. I understand why, because for people to get this personalized pleasure, i believe that drugs can be synthesized, i don’t know, personalized for you, they can be synthesized. I’m not even sure about tv series, because after all, it’s very important for everyone that we all watched the boy’s word together. We were all touched, triggered, excited in different ways we have something to talk about we have a person who is a social being and he is not very interested in consuming anything, he sits quietly in his corner, that’s why i don’t believe in it, but the fact that it will be technologically possible. Yes, i guess i don’t know, i didn’t look at the boy’s word by the way, but i’m a nonconformist. Apparently this is also important, you understand gris is also an element itself, an element of identity i just didn’t want to it wasn’t some kind of public thing that you didn’t want to do anyway.

Uh-huh i don’t know there are people who say i wo n’t read harry potter, everyone has read it, but i won’t read harry potter, it’s a children’s fairy tale, what for does it mean you know that there is a word for a boy, you know what it’s about, you know what kind of reaction it evokes among people, you’re building yourself up not that it’s completely in the opposite direction, but here’s a correlative novel that no one except you has read, and if you suddenly even read it, you won’t be interested. Well, seriously, well, it seems to me that after all, it will be like that, if i imagine that the ideal novel well, that is, if you seriously imagine that a certain novel that's like well, i don't even know what to compare it to, it's like an infinite joke in there's a work that you can't tear yourself away from well, in the sense of a work about which the novel is written an infinite joke, yes, that is, the person will be, well, the book will be silent. Well, it's still difficult for me imagine, i don’t see it in a human. It’s not that artificial intelligence will most likely be able to do it. I don’t see such motivation in a person yet.

Because if it were, well, as if people would read to themselves, each in a corner, what they need, they would n’t use it. This is not for any construction of identity after all and literature in general is any kind of art any kind of publicity and art -. This is a public activity and it contributes, among other things, to the formation of human identity, this is true, yes, but let’s return a little to the topic about better and how much the quality will suffer literature and perception, taking into account the fact that this was, after all, written by an artificial intelligence that does not have its own story, that is, firstly, it has a story. Yes well, i’m a little different, i can imagine that there will be different artificial intelligences that will have their own touching story maybe to be there fighting for one’s rights against humanity even then, yes.

But if it is some kind of abstract, impersonal corporate artificial intelligence that produces texts. Yes, he can write stylistically at the nabokov level and masterfully juggle words and syntactic structures, but at the same time he will not have the same class. Biographies like nabokov's who when we read his books we understand that there is luzhin's defense there he was friends with kurt bardot of belena who is a chess player and he himself loved chess and there he has some other peculiarities there emigration it all overlaps when we are reading something from you, we are this layer, we are losing this plane, doesn’t it do it automatically after all? Well, it’s not better than what you’re talking about, it exists. But it exists for a very small number of readers and most readers don’t remember whose book it read well, that is it is clear that there is a side. Tolstoy there is some set of unconditional huge quantities about which we know something, but if you ask the average statistical reader who loves dickens's books what he knows about dickens, he will not care about dickens's biography, there are writers who have biography and it’s important, it’s just dickens like that, i also don’t know anything, what do we know about before. Yes. And that he had an extremely fascinating life story and the collaboration with the london police is really real, there’s a scandalous divorce. Well, there is something, but it just so happened that it’s in the shadows we don’t know about donna tart at all, almost neither of us eat dan whom we don’t know at all, well, this is also part of the story, it’s like this mysterious guy who doesn’t give interviews there roche and donna tart is not very mysterious she sometimes gives interviews in which she answers very boringly monotonous and not exciting, that is, writers for whom this personal biography would be important, there aren’t very many of them, it’s true, and for example, i understand that when i write about a modern writer, about the last thing that comes to my mind is to google his biography. Well, that is sometimes it happens that right here you see there about there i don’t know fought, traveled, had cancer, well then these are books for which this is important, for most books this is not important, so i would suggest that some kind of intellectual biography. That is, we all have a biography, logically there is a biography intellectually, what did you grow up with? What are you made of? Artificial intelligence will, of course, have this biography, but in all of russia, all the texts are not on everything. Well, that is, i think that they will somehow sharpen their specialization; they are now also taught not on the whole volume. Texts. And on a certain sample and there, let’s say, the courts wright can write them under hgu and under rocky crayfish he cannot because he was not taught in good lessons, he honestly tells you i don’t know this show and you can show him then he will learn something but according to there is no default, that is, it’s very human, it’s human.

And i don’t know that show tell teach with people we also interact in short, i would suggest that this lack of personality behind the text will not be a determining factor we still enter into a relationship with the text and not with author and authors who would be important, there are not very many of them, and in this sense, of course, pelevin, already mentioned by us, is a great champion because, of course, this porfiry petrovich from aifak 10 and subsequently into which he was reborn and returned to us on a trip to eleusis, he just says that he has no desires of his own, he has no soul, but at the same time he behaves absolutely humanly a and m if you remember fact 10, there is one of the key ideas that artificial intelligence becomes human when it suffers, remember there is this heroine zhanna who is forced to suffer so that she can create something valuable because suffering is the soul, but these porfiry petrovich are in a sense an anthropomorph, we perceive him as alive, although he tells us all the time i am not alive inside me, nothing no, but we still perceive him as alive, this is generally a big problem, but there is such a novel by ian mackin, machines like us, which tells about a family that gets itself a robot, an artificial person with artificial intelligence inside, who immediately arranges an affair with the heroine and a question does he love her, does he lust after her, or does it just look like love and lust? How do we know and how do we know about man? A problem of consciousness that no one has yet determined what is it? Yes, that is, if something and free will looks like a duck quacks like a duck walks like a duck, it’s probably a duck, or what’s inside of it? Well, this is of course a popular topic now in literature and cinema and video games about suffering, by the way, in the tv series west world it was also similar and in the video game it was very influential as it is called detroit become human there too, as i understand it, writers like game scripters work on such games.

That is, this is a really big problem there, let’s say the same roman kazu and sigura don’t let me go, it’s about people who are not quite human ut didat are like people, but it seems not people, but how do we know that they are people? As a matter of fact, this whole novel is about the fact that we don’t have reliable criteria for determining that people are not people. Well, it’s like with a car, you said. We haven’t formed the norms yet. I’m not sure that in this case they can be formed, i’m in this sense i really love dan simmons’s novel peon in which if you remember an important element there is a conflict between civilization and artificial intelligence skins and human civilization, these ais are quite clearly a subject, they’re just some other the type of subjectivity that is formed under the influence of other evolutionary characteristics is, after all, also a product of evolution. Artificial intelligence evolves. Consciousness, in our understanding, does not arise simultaneously and is not something discrete; the frog has it. And then at what point can we say that the chimpanzee already has it?

This is the point therefore, that is, this is a diffuse process. Perhaps something similar is happening with artificial intelligence. We just don’t have the tools to understand the analysis. Writers will be able to compete with these super strong artificial intelligences of the future, or they will simply go to the dustbin of history because they don’t they will be able to produce just as consistently without burnout without writer's block. I think that here things will be a little different. Organized literature is a function of society; it is not only an individual creation of an individual genius; it is some function of society that is formed by it and partly shapes it later. That is, these are such complex cyclical relationships today we already live in an era when the function of the meaning of literature in society is already changing, for example, throughout most of its history, literature was not only art, not only art, but also media, it was a method of communication within society, that is, the controversy around the novel, what to do by chernyshevsky was just a hurricane and it gave rise to response texts, it gave rise to artistic texts in support as opposed to it. That is, it was some kind of really big important socio-political event. Today we see that literature has practically lost this function, that is, we discuss the person of zakhar prilepin, but we definitely don’t we will discuss it in the context of the abode, that is, for us, this means that things will separate. By the way, if we talk about the situation in russia today, the state is still fighting not with books, but with writers. Well, the defense prohibits not books, but writers, so the function of literature in society has already changed very much for the last maybe 30 years 30 years ago literature occupied a completely different place in society. Now i’m significantly older than you. I remember this well. You were already formed at a time when literature had already left somewhere from this position. And in my youth of literature it was that social glue was an important social history. So i think that in the future the function of literature will also change further, and therefore when we talk about the fact that the intellect will write novels. I think we are extrapolating in the form of carriages. Because that’s what we’re used to, so we think that what will happen next now, but i just don’t know with a propeller on the roof, for example, or i don’t know with some kind of what is it called a gravitational engine, for example, or an anti-gravity engine.

And i think that this is of course some kind of simplification, that is, we are discussing that they will write novels or not they will write novels, and perhaps by the time the technological ability to produce objects of such complexity arises, these objects will be in a completely different, some other medium, this will no longer be the literature that we are accustomed to today, so we can say that writers will wash it out. Well, everyone will wash it out in some way, that’s for sure. I’m just wondering how quickly i’l wash writers in comparison with others. I would suggest that, uh, a little faster, simply because writers, uh, writers are less important, less stars, less well-known. Well, that is, it’s clear that we can draw a deepfake of brad pitt, but so far brad pitt has such a personal charisma, a lot of personal weight that is, the deepfake is losing to him for now simply because it’s.

Brad pitt, what if well, plus they have rebelled there now to lobby that this is all quite temporary that is, this obviously, you can put a fence in the path of an avalanche and it will hold this avalanche for some time, but not for very long, that is, i would assume that the cultural landscape itself will generally change and for now it is somewhere beyond the event horizon, we cannot describe it yet because it will change, we will change, maybe some similar experiences will be awakened through some impulses in the brain of another conditionally , for example, yes, or it may be administered intravenously or consumed in the form of a tablet or generated at the cellular level, we don’t know. Therefore, here’s everything our previous conversation, it’s actually a little about a car in the shape of a carriage, when this future comes we will be so different that now we can’t imagine it, so we can talk about the fact that the writers will wash well, in some capacity, they will probably be someone else a writer the day after tomorrow is not a writer today, especially not a writer yesterday they will have some other functions they may be those people who well, you know, at the beginning of the 2000s those people who a generation earlier would have been writers they all became screenwriters there was nerve there was life there would be money there would be some kind of feeling of energy, but there is no literature, so it is possible that all those who would now be writers in a generation will generate and design pills that we will take to evoke in the brain sensations similar to the theme that we experience today when reading a novel. Well i'm choking in my sleep the screenwriters became bloggers in tenths the writers potentially went well, someone also became a screenwriter, someone combines with us the era through the line of professions add. Yes of course and someone went to train alice. And someone went to write an audio series for bookmates and so on, here are either video games or video games and that’s all. This, of course, is like one continuum. That is, all these are people who work in the space of storytelling but can convert it into different media, what do you say to people who now think they want to become writers, here i have there are people like that in the audience. But they will listen now, they’l probably leave dejectedly after this episode, i don’t know. I think i’m just radiating in this matter. What would i recommend?

I wouldn’t recommend anything because if a person has the intention of being a writer, then he won’t be a writer if a person has the intention to write, yeah,. It’s impossible to stop, you know, i had a friend who really wanted to be an artist, but she wanted to be an artist, and she really liked standing beautifully from a sketchbook and painting a landscape; the landscapes turned out terrible because the whole value was in sketchbook to go towards a beautiful landscape, all romantic in a dress and a hat. So she wanted to be an artist. Needless to say, this desire collapsed quite quickly, that is, if you have a desire to be there, i don’t know. Go to literary festivals so that girls can take autographs and so on. This is a dead end path so no one becomes a writer if well now no one really wants. This le i know people to. No i know. Yes. Now no you what kind of life there is movement performance i don’t know at literary festivals now especially after the start of the war some hellish ones come there have simply never been crowds like this because people are sad, people are lonely, people want to find their own people, and it could be their own people at a concert of z poets, or they could be their own people at the performance of some moderately anti-war writers, they all want to sit next to each other to understand that i’m not alone at in the world, and here you are standing handsome and reading poetry, or vice versa, all so beautiful, standing on stage and winking that you are hinting that not all of them are doing everything correctly, our parties of the government are next to you and sitting in front of you loving eyes, many want this, but now it’s the other way around a time when writers again gain some degree of publicity, but if the intention is not to be a writer but to write i have only one recommendation, familiarize yourself with the basic rules of storytelling and they will not allow you to write a great novel, but they will allow you to hammer crutches into it props at the moment when you feel that everything has gone wrong, you know, i see a lot of young writers bring a wonderful novel there and a wonderful beginning of the novel, i read two chapters there, i say wow, where is the continuation says not. Yet i say, well, you know how it will end. No. Not yet i know this is what the writer anna starobinets says, if you don’t, if you set out to write a novel and you don’t know how it will end, you’ve already screwed up. And this happens to people who don’t understand storytelling at all. So please, or take some courses, take a lot of them in russian in english, or at least read glera maki camble about well, propa to begin with, yes, but propa is still so much more academic well, get acquainted with the basic principles of storytelling and follow them. That is, this is not a rigid directive. Well, that is, you know how they say that the instructions are needed in order to deviate from them, but you know the instructions and you decide, here i will do it differently consciously and not like where i ended up then oops, the finale is you and no, as we often see especially with the debut novels of other soviets i’m not curious because i thought that you would say that you would first advise the classics to read some examples of great novels because it seems to me that even many great writers did not read books on storytelling, but they read great literature and absorbed from there, a strange person usually still the desire to write is born from another reading and the idea that before writing the first phrase i don’t know my name is ishmael, call me ishmael you must read all the world literature, some preferably two different, this is some kind of abstraction and not the reading writer, this is always visible. But there are strict requirements that you have n’t read tolstoy yet, don’t even think about it, but when you read it, think about it. Can you be like tolstoy, and if you can’t, then put down the pen, don’t touch the paper? It seems to me that this is some kind of utopian demand that you can’t write if you have a no desire to write. B. No. What -these ideas and you don’t know what you want to say third if you don’t know how a story is built, how a narrative is built in general, what is it in general for everything else there is gpt galina thank you very much for the fascinating conversation, such a good thing for you and me subscribe to social networks of galina and like write comments how do you like our discussion today what we agreed with what we disagreed with this show book person everyone.

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